Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

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Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by TigerMewX on Thu Nov 19 2015, 15:07

Hey
so today i wondered if there's really a stable meta in xonotic for 4v4 5v5 and so on
meta = best strategy/tactics/current optimal team composition/roles in the team

What do you guys think and how do they look like to you?
Personally I'm quite sure though Very Happy.
If you can figure out the optimal meta i'm sure this will increase the overall strength of a team quite a lot
(which could be helpful in a clanwar for example).

I'm also curious on what you guys think about various tactics (mostly camping) which are possible in the game

Just wanted to write something in here after such a long time i guess xD

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by vega on Thu Nov 19 2015, 17:47

Well this is a very interesting topic due to the fast pace of the game. Personally i've thought about this on many occasions.

In my opinion you have 3 important roles on a team:
1. Attack: Main goal = getting caps.
2. Defend: Main goal = defending the base.
3. Support: Main goal = clearing the enemy base and assisting the attackers to get back to the own base.

Ofcourse in 4vs4 or 5vs5 its pretty hard to define one role to one player. The way i see it people have to be able to change roles in different situations due to the fast pace of the game. That way the best team is a team that consists of players who feel which role to take in every ingame situation. And the only way to train that is to play a lot and by not just chosing to only camp or only attack. Just try everything out and eventually you'll find yourself familiar in every role and every situation Smile

Tactics don't seem to have a big part in Xonotic. The time it takes to say to your team: "do this tactic" the opponents can allready get a point. Ofcourse you could argue that teams can make a general tactic that applies on the complete duration of the map. But to be honest i've never seen it work... Razz

You do bring up a much hated topic: camping. In my eyes its a huge part of the game and the difference between camping and defending is so small anyway. Camping will stay a part of the meta no matter what changes come to the game so we might as well learn to live with it. Ofcourse it sometimes can be anoying as i've experienced many times myself but in the end you can't do anything about it besides fragging the campers Razz

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by TigerMewX on Thu Nov 19 2015, 18:16

Oh wow i didn't expect such a long reply in such a short time Very Happy

Yeah i agree with you mostly. For me there are Flag Carriers (which mainly go for the flag, should be good at movement, pretty fast), Defenders (who defend the base and when the flag is gone they search for the enemy fc). I'm the opinion that one defender always should be in your own base (when there're like 5v5 or something like that) try to prevent your base from being overran and also prevent spawnfragging (as it is JUST from a strategical view an efficient tactic sometimes when you really can pull it off on multiple people, mostly only in a clanwar). And there's maybe one guy that accompanies the flag carrier and try to break open the enemy base (mostly by fragging the defenders).

Camping can be efficient (depending in what scenario, which enemys you're facing and in which location you do it). Camping in your own base i usually call defending (which is essential to the game i think). You just cannot let the enemy the flag without any resistance, you're too much in a disadvantage when you'd really do it). So anything goes when you try to prevent the enemy from getting the flag in your own base for me.

But for example on lostspace - just sitting in a corner in the inner part where you can spawn, barely move and just aim for the spawnpoint is not appropriate and doesn't really help your team in any means and really should not be supported in any way.

You have to look at what your normal playstyle is and what you like to do and in what you're good at and then choose your position (which is your main position then).
But you basically should be able to play pretty much all positions as xonotic is a really fast game and the random spawn points mix everything up a bit. You should try to fulfil your position but often it's beneficial to swap positions simply because the other guy just got shot or spawned in a bad location etc. You try to swap positions back asap.

In normal games you're not a closed team - you often play with people with really different playstyles. So if you watch your teams and you've got a really fast dude in your team and you know he always goes for the flag then you rather defend. When you see this guy who likes to defend is in your team you go for the flag etc.
It doesn't help your team whatsoever when there's already 3 guys in your team you know always go for the flag and you try to go for the enemy flag too. There aren't 4 enemy flags to take. It would be much more beneficial if you just sit in your base/try to find and kill the other fc.

Just my opinion btw, maybe i'll edit it later

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~Vampy

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by TigerMewX on Thu Nov 19 2015, 18:32

I know some will probably totally disagree with me xd


Last edited by TigerMewX on Thu Nov 19 2015, 19:02; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by TigerMewX on Thu Nov 19 2015, 18:48

I also thought about spawnfragging and what you can do to prevent it without having to set a rediculous long spawn immortality (which is not fun in any way). It has to be said i really dislike spawn immortality (especially in 1on1 when you try to get the flag, frag the other guy, he spawns, you try to shoot him, he's immortal, kills you - like that kind of stuff). So basically my idea is that you press space, you can see where you spawn for 0.5 seconds (and even aim at that time). After that time you automatically spawn. You can press space earlier if you want to skip the remaining time. The other guy doesn't see where you will spawn. So you have the advantage over a spawnfragger rather than he has the advantage over you.

Just an idea i know//not very realistic xd

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~Vampy

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by AngeBabaCool on Thu Nov 19 2015, 19:54

Well, nice topic Wink

For me all looks simple, just spec that's better.

It's ABC!

Nah, joking. To me, you have to keep an eyes on your team mates to see what they're doing and try to play the way your team is missing. Meaning to be able to switch your gameplay to deffender to attacker to supporter. Also binds are usefull, i try to keep saying what i do, deffending, attacking and to say the situation at specifics moment like "base clear" or not, flag seen or so Smile

That's all for me :p
A good team mean good team play (or awesome unbalance Very Happy)

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It's ABC!'s incomming !

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by TigerMewX on Thu Nov 19 2015, 20:34

Yeah that's true. Binds are pretty useful. Unfortunately all of my numpad is consumed by name changing binds LOL

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~Vampy

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by AngeBabaCool on Thu Nov 19 2015, 21:32

You play with arrows so?
I play with zqsd or awsd or whatever and i have two "combo" of binds, i have all names binds away from that close range from my moves keys and i bound :

config 1, minsta, i bound all the team chat binds around my moves keys

config 2, vanilla, i bound weapons around my moves keys

(attacking defending always bound to mousse)

All no ingame needed binds are number panel or far letters like k for kill at cts, fancy chats binds, all others stuff.

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by AngeBabaCool on Thu Nov 19 2015, 21:33

Ah, it's aqsd for qwerty nah ?

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by TigerMewX on Thu Nov 19 2015, 22:51

Standard wasd, e for hook and space for jump.
Even if i cannot stir right when i hook because i use that finger for e.
I know some have changed their hook binds.

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by AngeBabaCool on Fri Nov 20 2015, 08:01

For a time i had laser bound to "e" and hook to secondary fire but i switched back default settings

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by AngeBabaCool on Fri Nov 20 2015, 08:06

The thing i should have a look to is 2 zoom, one for close range and another for long range

A bit like senex, his fov's swtiching always impress me Very Happy

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by TigerMewX on Fri Nov 20 2015, 11:09

I have a mouse with two extra mouse buttons at the side so i zoom with my thumb. Idk if a zoom for close range really is helpful.

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by AngeBabaCool on Fri Nov 20 2015, 19:08

Me neithier, that's why i wanna try Smile

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by Carontes on Fri Nov 20 2015, 21:02

About keys, I use wasd for movements, e for zoom (because using zom makes you a little slower, so, more the key is near my finger, I can press it faster), space for hook (I simply find uselessly difficult to use e and loose a finger for movements in the while; I use my thumb for space), tab for jump (needed to master more it and it has been very hard to use my little finger to reach such key).
About tactics, I usually play changing my style basing it on what other mates are doing; personally, I'm more a "capper" and a "flag stealer" than a base defender (also cause my aim works better while I move around, more than if I aim sitting somewhere). I usually stop defending at base if I see that enemies can't reach the flag because of it and, expecially in 1vs1, I go for the flag or I go around to defend my flagcarrier. Personally, everytime I sit anywhere to aim I call it camping, because it is; you can say it can be tactical sometimes, but for me is camping anyway, because if I am good enough, I don't need to defend my base, because I can rape my enemy anywhere, anytime.
About team tactics, I agree with you and I don't think my opinion is worth to be written, because I played too few times in prepared teams or clans or clanwars.

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[DieTunichtguten] eXabyTe

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by TigerMewX on Wed Nov 25 2015, 11:17

I played one clanwar i think. I'm as unexperienced as you

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~Vampy

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Re: Kinda bored i just wanted to write something

Post by TigerMewX on Wed Nov 25 2015, 11:36

Btw WTH i just found out there's actually someone called "vampy" in a series

https://www.google.at/search?q=vampy&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=979&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjc3Kn9r6vJAhUFXhQKHcYIDpQQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=granblue+fantasy+vampy

exabyte what have you done

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